Today myself and Roger Lawson have an awesome guest post for you today from the founders of Citadel Nutrition. Fact is we were introduced to these guys by Alan Aragon and after a good chat, we decided to do a podcast with them (make sure you see the end of this post for the links) and to have them guest post here.
As you know, I don’t stand for any of the BS that seems to plague our industry and I rarely ever talk about supplements in my articles. It’s mainly because I hate the idea of proprietary blends and you never really know what you’re getting sometimes. That’s different with these guys. They’re doing something you never see in the supplement industry. There’s no crazy, hyped up marketing and don’t worry – there’s no affiliate links – so I’m not just promoting them to make a buck – I’m simply really supportive of their cause.
Oh and we’re giving away 3 tubs of Tier 1 – all you have to do is one of the following to qualify:
- Leave a comment
- ‘Like’ this article on Facebook
- Tweet this article
We’ll draw the winners and announce them Wednesday June 27th on Facebook. I’ll email you if you’re one of the blog comment winners to get your address.
Note from JC: I have nothing to gain from having these guys write here – I get no kickback and no monies for this post – it’s super rare you see guys promoting a supplement without traditional bodybuilder ads, half-naked women, proprietary blends and annoying sales copy.
—on with the article—
The idea for Citadel Nutrition started about two years ago while we were sitting around mixing our own pre-workout supplement. We purchased bulk ingredients from a couple different places and had to go through the hassle of mixing it ourselves. It was a pain but it was the only way to ensure that we were getting what we wanted and in the amount we wanted.
So we’re sitting there scooping the powders and mixing them together and the question comes up – “why isn’t there a company that sells a preworkout, much less a line of supplements that we could get behind?”
It seemed like everywhere we turned, products were filled with fancy sounding names for their “secret” blends and at the end of the day you had no idea what you were getting.
This question came up over and over and we started doing some research into what it would take to start a sports nutrition company. We knew from the get go that we wanted to do things very differently than the status quo.
We started to learn about things like GMP standards, contract manufacturing, and third-party testing. A lot of people in the industry we talked with, like manufacturers or lawyers, told us point blank that the direction we wanted to go would not be profitable. We told them that we wanted to create supplements for a more informed target market and it was recommended that we target 16-21 year-olds and do what many other companies were doing: hyping up products with empty promises.
We were not down with that approach.
Although there were not significant barriers to entry in the traditional sense, the market was flooded with supplement companies and we knew it would be an uphill battle to stand out. The one thing we felt like we had was a different way of doing things and also one overriding principle: to create quality supplements that we’d take ourselves.
We feel that the easiest way to create a great product is to make something that you’d want to use yourself. You know the problem and the value of the solution intimately. There’s no substitute for that and its part of the reason why we love Tier 1 so much. So our story is very much a classic case of “scratching our own itch”. And here we are today.
Supplements
We see supplements as separated into three main categories:
- General Use Supplements
- Performance Supplements
- everything else.
We’d like to credit Lyle McDonald since his views on this helped shape our own. His website and articles on supplements can be found here.
General Use Supplements are those that act as nutritional insurance or essential nutrients. In simple terms, they support overall health and daily nutritional requirements. We would place these at the top of the hierarchy in terms of relative importance in regards to overall supplementation. Examples include fish oil, multivitamins, magnesium, zinc, calcium, and Vitamin D.
Performance Supplements on the other hand, focus on creating a direct impact on human athletic performance. It is very important that the ingredients that fall into this category are supported by solid research. Examples include creatine, beta-alanine, or joint supplements.. This category is of great interest to us.
In the “Everything Else” category are the hundreds of supplements you see come and go without much ado. These are the supplements that try to capitalize on the newest ingredient of the month or use some crazy marketing scheme to boost sales in the short term to make a quick buck. I think you guys all know which supplements fall into this category – you’ll often see them pop up as Facebook ads on the right hand side of your screen.
At Citadel Nutrition our goal is to focus on the first two categories and provide solid, staple supplements of the highest quality. At the end of the day, supplements are MARGINAL at best if your nutrition/training aren’t t in order so we really like to advocate sticking to the basics when it comes to supplementation.
We don’t see ourselves as having more than a handful of supplements in each of the General Use and Performance categories. We’ll never be one of those companies with forty or fifty products because we simply don’t feel there are that many effective mixes or ingredients out there to warrant it.
The Supplement Industry
Wow. Where to begin here. I think we all have a pretty good idea of what the industry is known for. From voodoo marketing to straight up untruthful claims, there’s a whole lot of BS out there. We talk about this on the podcast but humans have a tendency to seek out the path of least resistance. It’s in our nature to go from point A to point B as quickly and with the least amount of effort as possible.
Where it all goes wrong is that supplement companies notoriously capitalize on this and promise the magic pill or miracle powder to help you reach your goals. We’ve all heard it before. 5 lbs of muscle in 5 days. 20 lbs of muscle in 2 weeks. All while losing fat. Repartition diet coke into insulin. But only if you stack it with three of our other products. The fact is that achieving your fitness goals in almost all cases requires hard work, effort, and a properly balanced nutrition and training plan. We feel that supplements may help an individual train optimally or get the extra push to reach their goals, but it will never be the cornerstone of any program.
So how to combat this?
- Better supplement companies. Companies that use ingredients with lots of solid research. Non-proprietary blends. Effective doses. Ingredient sourcing. You get the point.
- Education. Learning what constitutes an effective supplement or learning how to effectively build supplements into a sound diet/nutrition program. Reading and learning from guys like Alan Aragon, slayer of all things BS in the sports nutrition world, or this very website right here.
Proprietary Blends
One thing you can do to help ensure that you pick effective supplements is to seek out products without proprietary blends. What are proprietary blends?
- Proprietary blends are bundled ingredients in which the amounts of all the ingredients in the blend are stated as one combined number.
- Simply put – the blend lists ingredients without the amounts.
What’s the problem with proprietary blends? The problem is that it’s nearly impossible to evaluate a product’s true effectiveness when proprietary blends are used. Each ingredient has an effective dose confirmed primarily through studies. When proprietary blends are used you don’t know if you are getting that dose or not.
A lot of companies will say that proprietary blends are necessary because it’s the only way to ensure a competitor doesn’t copy their mix. Think about that statement. Who loses in this scenario? The consumer does. With a proprietary blend you CANNOT verify that you are getting what you pay for.
We don’t buy into the excuse that you need to “protect” your blend because in our eyes there are so many other things for a supplement company to compete on such as reputation, customer service, marketing, taste, price, or <drum roll> who has the most effective formulation. Companies would need to start competing on the basis of providing the best quality products instead of voodoo marketing. Companies would also be held accountable for their products. Consumers win.
For a more detailed discussion on proprietary blends check out this blog post on the topic.
Tier 1
All pre-workout products should provide “energy” but here’s why we love Tier 1 so much:
- We tell you exactly what’s in the bottle. No proprietary blends.
- Ingredients and doses with scientific backing.
- We provide third-party test results. Trust through verification.
- We worked hard to find the best quality ingredients to include in the mix.
- Simplicity.
So what’s in the bottle?
- Caffeine – stimulant that will wake you up and give you a boost of energy.
- Tyrosine – enhances the effects of caffeine.
- Creatine – increases strength and power performance. Hundreds of studies showing positive performance benefit.
- Beta-Alanine – Helps reduce fatigue, improve muscular endurance, and helps with strength/power when paired with creatine.
- B-Vitamins – for those that may be deficient such as vegetarians or those that have absorption issues. Not needed if eating a balanced diet.
For an in depth analysis of our ingredients/doses check out our blog here.
Who needs it?
With Tier 1 we are not trying to get people “crazed” and stimmed out of their mind nor do we advocate that. Tier 1 is for people that want a boost of energy before they train plus two ingredients proven to increase their performance.
What’s it comparable to?
Although there are some decent pre-workout products out there, we don’t feel any of them are comparable to Tier 1. We wanted to make a strong statement when creating Tier 1 and really champion simplicity and effectiveness. The term “underdoing the competition” comes to mind in that we sought to buck the conventional wisdom of adding ingredient after ingredient into mixes and everybody trying to one-up each other.
We get a lot of questions from people asking us why we didn’t include their pet ingredient or some other ingredient that has shown promise. They express displeasure that our product does “less” than some of the others. But we are just as proud of what our product doesn’t do as we are of what it does do. We formulated Tier 1 to be as simple as possible because we felt that the majority of supplements were too complex. Too many ingredients, too many blends, too much BS. We wanted to go the opposite direction.
MLM
Okay so initially when we were putting the outline together for the podcast we were trying to troll JC and recommended adding the following topic (JC NOTE: and I thought it was so funny, I decided to leave it in):
How to engage in MLM marketing
- MLM marketing strategies
- Maybe a guest interview with [name removed]
- Engaging, training, and motivating the people that work under you in an MLM.
- How to use infographics effectively in MLM campaigns
The trolling started as a result of some lady hitting him up on Facebook about the merits of MLM marketing. Well, this trolling actually led to a semi-serious discussion on the serious flaws of the MLM model and the shady business practices that surround it.
Although we didn’t plan it that way it definitely seemed relevant after discussing some of the practices used in the supplement industry. In fact many bogus supplements are pushed via MLM marketing and it was quite comical that anyone but someone at the very top of a MLM chain would even try to defend it.
The reason we’re bringing this up is that BS doesn’t just exist within the supplement industry. It surrounds us on a daily basis and we all need to push ourselves to become educated and seek out information to become as informed as possible.
Whether it be supplements, diet, training, or anything else we are passionate about, it is difficult to open your eyes to new knowledge and challenge preconceived notions. But that is exactly what we must be doing all the time.
About The Founders
John McMahan
John saw a need for a reputable supplement company that also seeks to educate people on proper nutrition and sports supplementation. Following the mantra of “creating supplements we’d take ourselves”, Citadel Nutrition was born. People that have positively impacted John in this journey include Alan Aragon, Landon Evans, Lyle McDonald, and Martin Berkhan. When he is not reading technical reviews or in the gym John enjoys spending time with his family, bass fishing, and watching college football. He has a B.S from the Univesity of Tennessee and a M.S. from Georgia Tech. He lives in Atlanta, GA with his wife and two sons. Read more about John.
Daniel Yeh
From poring over every single page of Alan Aragon’s research review to late night debates on which ingredients were actually worthwhile, what started out as a personal experiment developed into a full blown obsession. From that point on Daniel and John decided to share their passion with others through Citadel Nutrition. In his free time Daniel trains for triathlons year round and enjoys lifting weights. He will be representing Citadel Nutrition in the Callaway Gardens and Lake Lanier triathlons later this year. He lives in Atlanta, GA with his wife and holds a B.S and M.S from Georgia Tech. Read more about Daniel.
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JC NOTE: We interviewed Daniel and John for our 8th FitSmart Podcast. If you want to download the podcast, right click here and ‘save-as.’
Or listen using the player below
Thanks for listening and please subscribe on iTunes, or with RSS.
Hey Mr. Yeh and Mr. McMahan,
I am a student at Southern Oregon University graduating Spring of this year with a degree in Psychology and have really caught an interest in the supplement research world. I really like your simplistic approach to your product and your company and I also admire your honest transparency that lacks in other companies where they will blindly call themselves transparent. Rival-us comes to mind and how they title products with names like “anabolic prescription,” and throw around the term “military-grade” on herbal products. I want to make my own supplement company with that same transparency that you have with your products. I want to have fun and I want to make money, and I want my customers to be happy with my products; the latter isn’t as simple because it will take a lot of careful thought and hard work to make a great product as you have, that will make customers happy. Do you have any recommendations for my “The Hobbit-calibered” journey to creating a supplement company?
Hey Don,
Responding to you email via as to not spam JC’s comment section with a dissertation.
Thank you the good words and will be happy to share some lessons we’ve learned along the way.
Cheers,
Daniel
Don,
Tried to email you but the email bounced back. The email didn’t end up being too long so I figured I’d just post it here for you.
First off, thank you for dropping a message for us via JC’s wall. It’s always inspiring to see that the American entrepreneurial spirit is alive and well.
In terms of any advice I can give, there have been so many trials and tribulations through this journey that I could write a book but the first piece of advice that I think will help the most is that if you truly decide this is something you want to do, you have to go all-in. Starting a company and trying to make it successful is something you can’t half ass. Being in college you have a huge benefit in that you don’t have the responsibilities of a family (I’m assuming) or mortgage or any of the other things that drive so many people to work unhappily in a career that they hate. I commend you for wanting to pursue your passion. Life will be a lot more interesting and fulfilling that way.
John and I were strategic about many things like doing our research at night while we held our day jobs and working as long as we could before quitting, but at the end of the day we had to both quit and face uncertain futures. I can speak for John and also myself in that we both had to make lots of sacrifices. Most days are great, some not so much. We’re far from being viable and we fight every day to grow our company and remain committed to our customers. I think that’s something a lot of people don’t see, is the behind the scenes work. The back and forth with manufacturers, especially if you’re detail oriented is going to be excruciating so be prepared for that. Lots of unforeseen costs, so you’ll need adequate capital to start. Insurance. Product testing. Marketing. Etc. etc. etc. Banks typically won’t provide loans to start-up companies so you’ll probably have to put a large portion of your own skin in the game. So be prepared for that. It’s not an easy road.
The second biggest piece of advice I’d give is to get the buy-in of your family and friends. You’ll benefit from a strong support network if you decide to do something as challenging as starting a business. I’m sure you could be an island and push through by yourself but it’s a lot harder that way. Your family might end up providing some of the capital to keep the business running while you’re still in the red. You might need your friends to help you take photos or create a website. The myth of the overnight success is exactly that. Just a myth. It’s a lot of hard work and toil before then and you’ll need a strong support network to get you through it all.
Hope this helped, and if there is any specifics you have questions on don’t hesitate to ask.
My email is daniel @ citadelnutrition.com
Daniel
Love the attitude towards this product. I’ll be sure to check out more from Citadel!
nice site, WHAT A CRAZY WORLD WE LIVE IN please use your position of influence to spread the truth about the Olympic 2012 false-flag terror attacks (huge LIES like 9/11 and 7/7) due to take place in london because US/UK/EU/Isreal is running out of excuses to attack Iran/Syria. Thanks mate. Appreciate it =)
Just love the new look on the website btw! Awesome!
thanks!
I’ve never taken a pre-workout supplement in the 3.5 years I’ve been lifting. Might be worth it to give this stuff a try.
Justin, if it ain’t broke don’t try to fix it.
Are you already using creatine/beta-alanine? If you are not or don’t plan to and are just looking for a boost before lifting I’d recommend drinking some coffee or taking a caffeine tab (as necessary of course).
We take preworkouts because we used to (still do) work long hours and was so exhausted by the time we got to the gym that it was nice to get a boost before training. So much of lifting and performance is mental so that cognitive and ergogenic boost was pretty “essential” for us.
“Justin, if it ain’t broke don’t try to fix it.”
You sold me on that attitude alone. Definitely getting some now to support you bros.
MLM Marketing is redundant (Marketing Marketing). MLM is a very cost effective for the top of the chain. But it is an easy way to fast track to a bad reputation. The majority of the businesses that run MLM style business fight an uphill battle against public opinion.
I’ve worked MLM. It’s very hard to recruit people, and the actual clientele scope is fairly limited. Once reps have pitched to stores (or directly to gym-goers) whats the next step? While great at first, trying to sell powder to people that don’t really go to the gym is a challenge. Controlling the top is fairly easy, but how would you be able to recruit people and maintain them to sell the product and expect them to make a sustainable amount of income? Are you marketing directly to customers or nutrition/supplement stores?
Personally, I don’t see it as an effective marketing strategy for supplements.
I agree – not a very effective way to market supplements. It’s just not a sustainable business model.
These guys deserve to be commended for a number of things, but especially coming out with a pre-workout that is not just proven but likely the safest alternative.
I feel like pre-workout stims are a slippery slope to serious problems with stimulant dependency, and I take issue with laundry list of proprietary blends with a number of ingredients witch questionable safety are a huge
Here is a line of products that should absolutely be promoted, and yet they’re only focusing on small scale marketing.
You’ve got my recommendation.
Thank you for the good words.
Looks good, and I just checked out your site and…wow. Great pricing. Refreshing to see something that is quite literally half the price of other supplements out there.
Are you guys only going through your site right now? Just curious because I’m situated in Canada.
Cody – we have shipped to our supporters all over the world. There is an international shipping option at checkout if you’re interested.
Thanks!
daniel@CN
Sounds great! Looking forward to seeing the other products that come out too
How about the studies when Caffeine maybe interfere with Creatine at the cellular level?
We looked at a few of the studies regarding this. The studies commonly referenced dealt with high doses of caffeine (5mg/kg) negating the ergogenic effect of creatine supplementation on isokinetic performance and muscle relaxation time. Due to the way the trials were designed, we believe they are not as relevant for why most people take creatine.
Alan Aragon discusses this topic as well as some limitations on the studies mentioned above in his July 2008 research review. We think Alan hit the nail on the head when he mentioned that from an anecdotal standpoint, caffeine and creatine have very little (if any) conflict in real-world strength, power, or hypertrophy-oriented training.
Check out a site that JC introduced us to that we found very helpful in terms of providing scientific info on dietary supplements…
http://examine.com/faq/does-caffeine-counteract-creatine.html
- John@CN
Have you evaluated Tier 1 for use by ladies?
Hey Siruiusalien – thanks for the interest.
Well IMO the key factor is if you are supplementing with creatine/beta-alanine. Women definitely can see performance benefits from supplementing with these two ingredients if they chose to.
If you are just looking for a boost before you workout and are not supplementing with creatine/beta-alanine, you’d probably be better of drinking some coffee or popping a caffeine tab (as necessary of course). It would be cheaper that way.
I am only currently supplementing for general health: multi, fish oil, vit D etc.
I’ve had a couple poor workouts due to lack of energy/stamina. My trainer, whom I did just fire, suggested I eat more prior to work outs. Was looking for something to help this fat old chick get through a hard training session
I’ve all but given up on most supplement formulations out there in favor of ordering ingredients in bulk and making my own. I’m glad to see a company valuing quality over hype. Although it may not be as large of a market, I’m sure there will be plenty of informed consumers who appreciate this approach.
Some may argue it doesn’t make any difference, but I was also happy to see the P5P form for vitamin B6, the methyl form of B12, and the highest quality version of each ingredient in the Tier 1. Those little things signal the difference to me between companies that “get it” and those that don’t. I’ll definately be keeping my eyes on Citadel.
Your company policy sounds good, this is something that the supplement industry should focus more on. Being truthful instead of trying to squeeze every dime out of skinny youngsters desperately trying to add some muscle.
Thanks for the good words John.
I’ve been reading and learning about supplements recently since I read FJ’s book (courtesy of Fitocracy). I’ve been looking for something that stacks beta-alanine with creatine and caffeine. My only fear is becoming a stim junkie. It would be nice to have something to take every once in a while when I just don’t feel like I have the energy to go train, but it’s not something that I want to rely on like I have to have it. Would that be possible with this product? Please be advice.
Hi Henley,
You definitely don’t need to take a preworkout every single time before you train. In the case of Tier 1, just make sure you are getting your maintenance doses of creatine/beta-alanine if you have chosen to supplement with those.
In terms of thinking when you need a boost prior to your workout It really comes down to experimenting and seeing what works the best for you.
To answer your question, no you do not need to take it all the time, and yes only when you feel appropriate and need a boost.
I’ve taken quite a few different types of pre-workout, and currently I’ve been taking the same one for almost half a year now. The reason why I love it is because it’s not stimulant-heavy and the company actually discloses the amount of each of the main ingredients (creatine, BCAAs, beta alanine, and citruline malate).
BUT now that I think about it, the product is a propriety blend where each serving is about 23g. The main ingredients I listed above added up to 8.25g. Yes there are other ingredients in the product, but for each serving to be 23g is saying a lot. Tier 1 sounds very promising and would love to try it out one of these days.
nice, may give it a try!
Glad to see there’s a least one supplement company who gets it! I noticed you only have tier 1 available right now. What’s next on the agenda? If you’re after the Martin Berkhan/Lyle McDonald type audience, perhaps a BCAA for those who like fasted training and a yohimbine supplement for stubborn fat loss?
Hi Kevin,
We were strongly considering a BCAA product for those that train fasted but we are gravitating more toward a protein product or fish oil right now. It’s somewhat up in the air. We are still doing a good bit of reading/research into the best way to go about both. If you have any suggestions we’d love to hear them – you can reach out to us at any time.
Daniel
“Stim junkies and people that think “pumps/buzzes/tingles” increase performance need not apply” That’s all you have in this product… Tons of caffeine, beta alanine for those quality tingles, and tyrosine for more of a hype/pump. This product will definitely get you stimmed, not sure if your anti stim marketing is just the fact that you didn’t include DMAA or yohimbine?
I would add some sort of carnitine, citrulline, choline, and (bcaas although they compete with tyrosine for absorbtion) if I made this preworkout. This one does not stand out from the crowd for me.
Other nice additions would be MCTs, although I just get a tablespoon of coconut oil, and taurine, and maybe some theanine to counteract all that caffeine you got in there(lots!).
I don’t mean to be too negative, but it’s nice to be able to comment on an advertisement.
Hey Tony – first off thanks for the feedback.
As to the stim junkie comment if you do a comparison of our product with others you’ll see it has considerably less stimulants than what is commonly found on the marketplace.
As to the beta-alanine – we didn’t add it for the “tingles” so to speak – it is a quality dietary ingredient meant to raise your carnosine levels and improve muscular endurance.
Not sure why you think Tyrosine gives “pumps” but that’s not the case.
With some of your recommendations, we specifically chose not to include those ingredients because we want to keep it as simple as possible. Again, that’s where you get into the standard practice of adding too much complexity to products. As you know, not everyone will be happy with that but with we like to stick to the basics.
If you get a chance check out our blog on the Analysis of ingredients and doses that will help you get a better idea of why we did what we did.
Thanks again for the feedback and reach out to me anytime with any questions!
Daniel